Retsnom wrote: keyert wrote:
Tibberius wrote: we've adjusted a fair bit of how the archers work including completely new animations for the archer and many many fixes on javelins + adjustments to the crossbow.
I sincerely hope this is the case. I played Javelin all throughout AoC and it was underpowered there despite it being significantly
better than it is in Chivalry. Anyone playing more than five or six games of Chivalry can immediately observe the extreme lack of Archers near the top-end of the scoreboard. When I heard "Javelins needed a lot of work" stated when this patch was briefly alluded to before, I expected Javelins and the archer class in general to be made a legitimate class once again. As it is, that is most certainly not the case. There can be no doubt that archers are heavily underplayed and for good reason; they're killed instantly by every other class at close range and knights take 2-3 shots to kill depending on where they are hit. As was stated previously, give us one half-decent reason for the reduction of javelins and I will be more than satisfied, as I am obviously failing to realize your motives other than to completely and utterly remove archers from being an even remotely viable part of the game. Five Javelins? That's enough to kill maybe 1 and a half enemy players per life if the javelin-user is entirely accurate; something virtually impossible given javelins have a positive acceleration in the air for literally 5 feet before they dive bomb into the ground.
Good work so far, but real balancing needs to happen before this game will even begin to approach the equilibrium is so desperately needs.
I am not sure what servers you are playing on or if you have not come across some good archers but I have seen far too many archers in servers and the good ones are always on top. I also believe that that is the exact same number of Jav you got in AOC where you could get many 1 hit kills with jav.
I feel that the Archer class should and always be a support ranged class with melee being a very weak point to the class with maybe the exception of Jav, as a good accurate archer can soften up many classes only to finish them off in melee. But currently Archer melee is way over powered in their ability to parry any weapon and take no damage. Please let me see how an archer with a butter knife can parry my baseball bat in real life without taking some damage!
In AOC, part of the intensity and thrill was zig zagging across an entire map dodging arrows when you could and if you actually got close to an archer you were rewarded with a semi easy kill. Now that is virtually impossible as they can block everything with little to no cost in stam or health. Hell I have seen an archer take on 3 enemies melee, he mostly parried all the heavy weapons allowing the enemy to team wound each other then kicked in spamming combo and took them out. Sorry, way to OP for a low armor support range class. Bring back the easy kill melee of archers and keep them in the rear with the gear doing their job at range where they belong. If they are skilled they will still do well. It is not like you ever see archers doing objectives or not killing their teammates from the rear.....
Yeah, Archers are not OP in melee. You either have superior range with your primary as either Vanguard or Knight as well as health plus a secondary that has comparable speed and you have the health advantage still AND perhaps even a shield. MAA has that nifty quick step so he has a range advantage as well. Generally, if you're close enough to the Archer to hug him, it's your own fault for getting killed.
That said, yes, it doesn't make sense that a butter knife can parry anything let alone the weapons in this game. You're not Dracule "Hawk-Eyes" Mihawk. But you know what? You shouldn't be able to parry an overhead from an double ax or warhammer with a sword. Think about it for a second if you don't believe me. Hold your hand up like you do in the game if you were to parry in the situation I just described. Either you'll connect with the hammer/ax at the shaft and get your head caved in or you'll connect with the head of the weapon and your sword will probably break AND your head will cave in.
It's just way easier for everyone to know that if you have a melee weapon, you can parry other melee weapons. Otherwise, you might as well just give Archers the option to commit suicide if they get into melee combat. I don't know if you've tried it, but trying to stay alive in melee as an Archer is hard. If there's people who can do it well, more power to them.
Retsnom wrote: In AOC, part of the intensity and thrill was zig zagging across an entire map dodging arrows when you could and if you actually got close to an archer you were rewarded with a semi easy kill.
Yes because in AoC, there actually was an equal distribution of archers:melee users. If the FFA game mode was added to the game, archers should still be able to compete in this game mode and not be entirely obsolete. I play a high majority of FFA for the sole reason of friendly fire existing in team-based scenarios. Claiming that is the archers fault if they hit a friendly target is just not a true statement. Now that arrows are moving faster this will be less likely to occur, but for javelins it is still the case: whether or not my throw hits a friendly or enemy target is much more dependent upon the movement of my teammate than the accuracy of my throw. By time my javelin reaches it's prejected destination, a minimum of 0.25-0.5 seconds have elapsed depending upon the range; assuming this is a team-based map, it will most likely be a decent length. This is an impossible window to predict movement if movement is not consistent; hence my desire to play in a FFA scenario as javelin. Do not forget that you're shield size was doubled in the transition to Chivalry and that 90% of the profile is now protected by a shield.
I am judging by FFA servers, and there, there cannot be beyond a shadow of a doubt that if any archers are even playing in the game, they are on the lower half of the leaderboard.
Regarding the melee abilities of archers I care not if they should be altogether removed from the game. When an archer class is selected, the intent of the player is to rely predominantly on its ranged capabilities.
I'm going to tell you straight up that Archers who shoot into melee when friendly fire is possible are... stupid and other not very nice words. There's no situation in the real world as well as this game where this would be acceptable. Spoony talked about this in one of his Counter Monkey videos and the same situation applies here. If I catch people doing that to me, they better hope I don't find them...